With a pupil of Kiev “Dynamo”, a player of the national team of Ukraine and Samara “Wings of the Soviets” Andrei Gusin, Alexander Shmurnov and Alexei Andronov are talking.
- The stereotype makes me think that in Kiev Dynamo some kind of gladiators are too stable an image of tough and stubborn players. Otherwise, you just can’t stay in the club. Meanwhile, Andrei Gusin gives the impression of a cheerful, even carefree person.
- Now it may be ... But when Valery Vasilievich Lobanovsky returned to Kiev, I was different. The team then had big problems, there was not enough motivation for victories, and everyone expected that with the advent of Lobanovsky everything would change. Everyone wanted to excel, and for many years this was a sufficient basis for self-development. All fought for the same thing: for the coach, for the club, for the country as a whole. And it brought results. Of course, there was discipline. I think it would be hard for me now to work in that schedule. And at that time everyone, including myself, considered normal two or three times training at the training camp, constant weighing. Of course, it exhausted how exhausted we, the defenders, the game in training against Shevchenko and Rebrov. But we felt a return. Of course, we were not robots, we were just charged by a trainer who was able to reach out to everyone and achieve the desired result from everyone.
- Andrei, now that Lobanovsky is no longer with us, you get the feeling that he was a phenomenon, a block ...
- Yes, for me he was and will remain a great coach. He discovered many of my opportunities, one might say, opened me up as a player. He always found the right words for everyone. Everyone in the team trusted him endlessly.
- They say that Lobanovsky was a tough person. Each of us had a chance to communicate with him, some more, some less. However, a feeling of impregnability, closedness did not arise.
- Me too. But, I’ll tell you, just one look of Valery Vasilievich was enough for the player to understand that he was wrong, and even in what exactly. Maybe in some situations the player’s personality suffered. Lobanovsky always had his own opinion and always remained with him, unlike many of today's coaches. He could talk with the football player, but at the end of the conversation the player understood that it was impossible to prove anything and all the arguments were useless.
- Now there is a magazine devoted to the Champions League, with a large article on Lobanovsky entitled: “The player should not think, I think for him.” Was this always the principle of Lobanovsky or did he nevertheless retreat from it?
- Yes, when I talked with the current Dynamo mentors, who had trained a lot during the Soviet era with Lobanovsky, they confirmed that he was even tougher and more demanding then. And with us he was already softer, the load on the trainings was also reduced, although there was a lot of work. The reason for the change also lies in the fact that there were legionnaires who did not treat his words like us, and he had to rebuild.
- There is a legend: Buryak played a heel, Lobanovsky reprimands him. Buryak replies: "Valery Vasilievich, I’m for the viewer." “So,” says Lobanovsky. - The viewer cancel. Heel too. ” Could this be in your time? Or are there still more liberties? Maybe thanks to the same legionnaires?
- Of the legionnaires at the time when I played at Dynamo, there was only Kaladze. But I’ll tell you that Valery did not forbid to create. Shevchenko, Rebrov and other attackers had much more freedom than, say, defense and support. Yes, defensive players were required to clearly comply with all previously agreed requirements. And for the attackers, a lot depended on their individual capabilities and decisions.
- Andrey, decipher for us one of the basic rules of Lobanovsky, which was inscribed on the wall in the training class of the training base in Koncha-Zaspa: “The player must be able to switch from playing the game to achieving a specific result.”
- For Lobanovsky, the achievement of the result was always the most important thing in the game. And for this, many could be sacrificed. Now, recalling many matches, one cannot but admit that we did not always play beautifully. There could be no match, sour, but at one point in the attack the outcome of the game was decided.
- We now praise Lyon a lot as one of the brightest and fastest-growing teams in Europe. In the recent match between Lyon and Sochaux, the French champion had no game, including because there was heavy rain. However, Gerard Houlier made several substitutions, as a result one of the players who entered the field scored a goal that seemed random. That is, the Lobanovsky rule worked: the coach released those players on the field who were able to achieve the desired result, without paying special attention to the game. And yet in modern football, this rule only works if the game is there, if it is delivered. You said, “We didn’t always play beautifully,” so you used to play beautifully?
- Yes of course. The emphasis was simply on defensive actions. Moreover, we always knew that there will be moments and we will be able to realize them. We believed in our forwards.
- Andrey, for that Dynamo you are a unique figure. And Shevchenko, and Rebrov, and Belkevich, and Kosovsky were known before the arrival of Lobanovsky. And Gusin played for Dynamo 2, and played forwards. Lobanovsky came to the double game, looked and said: so here is the finished defensive midfielder.
- In that memorable match for Dynamo 2, I probably scored my main goal in my career. He took the ball in his own penalty area, dragged it to a stranger and scored a crazy blow into the very top nine. That goal determined my whole destiny. And then Lobanovsky said this phrase.
- Very interesting story. After all, it would seem that Lobanovsky should advocate that every footballer play in his place: the support should not cross the center line. And he, analyzing the game, was glad for a successful pass through the entire field and the goal of the defensive midfielder. All this reveals the true character of Valery Vasilievich. By the way, in his last television interview, he focused on your game in detail: in your own penalty area, according to Lobanovsky, you are a defender, in the center of the field you are taking the ball, that is, organizing your own attack, and you act as an attacker in someone else's penalty area. Before us is a universal player!
- Yes, Lobanovsky used the strong qualities of each player, and everyone in our team scored. Often from the standards, but not only from them, both midfielders and defenders scored.
- Now in “Wings of the Soviets” Andrei Gusin is a player capable of playing in any position?
- Undoubtedly.
- Was such a role discussed in the team beforehand, or was it developed according to circumstances?
- Arriving at Wings, I immediately said that I wanted to try myself in different qualities. And time has shown that I really can play in many positions. This also applies to the Ukrainian team. For example, at the World Cup in a match with Switzerland, I played on the spot of the central defender.
- What is your current club coach - Haji Hajiyev? What are its strengths? Does he look like Lobanovsky? And due to what “Wings”, which once almost burned out, now remain in the game, preserving the identity of the style?
“He looks a lot like Lobanovsky.” Judiciousness underlying character is probably the main feature that unites them. Other common qualities: ability to restrain emotions, respect for wards. There are, of course, significant differences. Lobanovsky did not allow his players to talk much. He liked to repeat: “If a player began to reason, it means that it is time for him to switch to coaching.” Hajiyev, on the contrary, not only welcomes the dialogue, but even demands that we express our opinion. Perhaps this is the key to the success of his teams. I, by the way, have recently more and more often shared with coaches considerations about the game of another opponent and participate in the preparation of a game plan. Of course, I’m not ready to train yet, I even think about it early, I want to play some more. But I am always happy to share my observations and thoughts with the trainers.
- The freedom that Hajiyev admits in relations with football players (a rare thing, by the way, is a thing for our football, since coaches almost never go to reduce the distance with football players), does it sometimes turn against the team? To recall at least the recent conflict with Cameroonian Serge Branco, who behaved, let's say, is not entirely adequate.
- I think the player simply mismanaged this freedom and this distance. Trust must not be abused. No one’s. Neither the president of the club, nor the coach, nor partners. It is necessary in any situation to understand who you are and in what environment you are, what you are doing and what you are saying.
- How did you rate the episode when Branco got on the ball before Daniel Carvalho in the match against CSKA and got a red card for this?
- If the player was removed and this affected the result, then he is wrong. "You can not abuse anyone's trust. Neither the president of the club, nor the coach, nor the partners. In any situation, you need to understand who you are, in what situation you are, what you do and what you say."
I think this episode directly or indirectly confirms that Branko did not always realize what he was doing. Only, honestly, Branko is not a figure to whom it is worth devoting so much time in our conversation.
- Then we will dedicate it to the national team of Ukraine. And the world championship.
- The World Cup is an event for which you can sacrifice a lot. I never hid that since childhood I dreamed of playing at the world championship or at the European Championship. He went through five qualifying rounds with the Ukrainian national team and is now happy that he has become a participant in the World Cup. I admit that at one time I left Dynamo Kyiv in order to play in some good team, to have practice and to be in front of the national team coaches. And I’m very glad that this happened: I managed to help Wings, and Wings helped me.
- But there was a danger that in Samara Andrey Gusin would be out of sight of the Ukrainian team. Wouldn't it be better to go to the Dnipro, for example, or to Odessa's Chernomorets?
- Firstly, in Kiev Dynamo, which was then coached by Jozsef Szabo, I definitely could not stay. The contradictions were too deep. And the option with Samara arose even a little earlier, and the real invitation from the then president of “Wings of the Soviets” German Tkachenko was not a surprise. Of course, I wanted to go to England. There were other proposals, but Samara turned out to be the most concrete and prepared.
- Let us return to the Ukrainian team. In general, in the world there are few national teams that live as a team. Most often, the national team is only the national team. Gathered for a few days - parted as if nothing had happened.
- A lot depends on the coach. He must not only view the players and declare a list, but also make them a single whole, a team. We were lucky: when we with a creak, but successfully started the qualifying tournament, first came a sense of responsibility for the result, and then confidence in our abilities. The atmosphere in the team is created by coaches and players, but it should be natural, not artificially created. In this sense, everything was fine with us, the atmosphere resembled our best Dynamo years, when everyone was like-minded.
- But after all, in those very Dynamo times, the team was even more united.
- Probably, then we lacked all emotions. On Wednesday, Dynamo smashed Barcelona in the Champions League, and three days later the same players went empty for a match for the national team against the Croats.
- It turns out that if the team is almost the same - both the national team and the club - people seem to boil in the same juice, their work becomes monotonous, and it is difficult to achieve results on several fronts. This time, you had Shevchenko in your team - a man who achieved almost everything at the club level, but dreamed of playing at the World Cup, Rebrov - almost at the sunset of his career, but who felt a new surge, football players from different championships, even in Ukraine playing different clubs and in different conditions. And this fusion of players with different ambitions, but united by a common idea, gave the best result.
- I agree. It was important that everyone dreamed of a world championship and everyone could bring something of their own both to the game and to the atmosphere of the team.
- You, in fact, failed the starting match with Spain, but then we saw another Ukrainian team. What happened after the first game, as Blokhin returned to the team faith in their own strength?
- I think, subconsciously, he was ready to lose from the Spaniards, and therefore acted without panic. He made several logical, in my opinion, replacements and generally acted as if nothing had happened. He, in general, before the championship said that everything will be decided in matches with Saudi Arabia and Tunisia. And so it happened. And for the match with Switzerland in the playoffs, everyone has already come up in a normal, fighting condition.
- Your partner in the national team, Maxim Kalinichenko, said that the game with Spain, despite 0: 4, paradoxically calmed the team. What everyone understood: the best football players in the world are the same people with two arms and two legs and you can play with them ... And you reached the quarterfinals with Italians in a completely different state than in the first match of the championship.
- Probably it is. Psychologically, we were ready to play with Italy. Moreover, just before the mundial they tied with her in a friendly match. It is a pity that they missed a quick goal, he confused all the cards. But the experience that we gained by playing, in fact, our football with future world champions, means a lot. And for each player of that team, and for all Ukrainian football in general.
Alexander Shmurnov, Alexey Andronov