As part of a special 2: 1 project in which Gazeta correspondents and NTV + commentators Alexander Shmurnov, Mikhail Melnikov and Kirill Dementyev will weekly present "selected places" from their conversations with invited guests - sports stars, we publish an interview with referee Valentin Ivanov.
- Valentin Valentinovich, your appearance before the press is a rarity. Is this a position in life or do not like how journalists work?
- First of all, hello. Without the press, I am more comfortable living and preparing for the work that I am doing. It may sound somewhat selfish, but nonetheless it is. My work is hard, nervous, I need to be distracted from it somehow. And if you constantly communicate with reporters, then it will be hard for me. Journalists do not just talk, they touch on topics that are not always pleasant. It is necessary to be distracted, calmly prepare, recover after the last match in order to normally go to the next.
- The standards that you have to pass, probably become more difficult every year?
- If you take high-level football, then without horse health there is nothing to do there. In fact, judges have the same training as athletes. Daily workouts.
- On the one hand, it is necessary to comply athletically, but on the other hand, from a position of attention, when the judge must discern, glance, evaluate and make a decision, it becomes much more difficult, because the players are running as if they have been switched on at a new speed.
- I agree. Therefore, recently the role of assistants has been significantly increased. In addition to their main, very difficult task - to fix the position outside the game - they are now entrusted with fixing violations of the rules up to the appointment of a penalty.
- Previously, they were called referees on the line, and now they are called assistants to the chief judge, and this is probably not by chance. And there is also a fourth, reserve referee. An example from the finals of the World Cup: the fourth referee saw something, perhaps in a repeat, and only he informed Elisondo that he needed to show Zidane a red card.
- I really doubt the repetition. But the essence is this: with regard to the application of disciplinary sanctions, all four people participate. The reserve referee may inform the chief that such a player has committed a violation and must be removed or warned for this. He has the right to do so. He has no right to suggest that this was a technical violation of the rules. There are only assistants. As for disciplinary sanctions, this is one of his duties.
- Your opinion about the clash between Zidane and Materazzi?
- I have an unequivocal opinion. Unfortunately, there could be no other solution - only removal.
- In your opinion, there was no certain provocation?
- If Materazzi does not admit to what he said, then how can he be punished? It turns out the word Zidane against the word Materazzi. You cannot create such a precedent. If Materazzi is disqualified on charges of Zidane, then next time ...
- How do you generally look at the use of video replays?
- In principle, I can express my attitude to video repetitions.
This is a rather obscure situation. Indeed, in football, in addition to absolutely understandable moments, understandable one hundred percent errors, a lot of situations are created when people's opinions differ greatly about the same case. The judge appoints a penalty, then you, journalists, sit down in your large group, watch seven or eight repetitions. Some say that there was a penalty, the other did not.
The same thing happens in a special commission that evaluates the actions of the arbitrator. There, too, people do not always come to a consensus, even by looking both in slow repetition and from different angles.
Well, introduce these video replays. A controversial moment will arise, the judge will come up, look, remain at his own opinion - and still the other group will say that this is an erroneous opinion.
- To what extent should the referees rely on the rules, and to what extent should they take into account who is playing, in what competition, with what excitement, with what background to the match? How much should they be imbued with the spirit of a particular match, and not football in principle?
- It depends on what it is about.
- That is the question: is it worth judging each match as a separate match?
- The rules are one. If this is a kick in the penalty area, then a penalty. And no matter where the game is in Milan or elsewhere. Next, you need to talk about the level of rigidity that you can allow in a given match.
If you judge in England when the English team plays with the German one (and they like to fight, they love collisions), and you will whistle at every push, then this will annoy the players and no game will work.
Another thing if you will judge two Italian teams in Italy. Italians also know how to play hard, but it happens that at some point they start to get too nervous. And you need to be very careful not to miss this moment and somewhere to "put them on the whistle." That, of course, is the difference.
This can be not only in international games. Let's say two leading teams go out to play in the Russian championship. They are in good shape, players want to fight, play football. Here they can be allowed a little more than usually allow. As soon as the players get tired, if they fail, they get annoyed - at the judge, at the opponent, at the partner ... Giving them to play in this way, of course, makes no sense. All these points are difficult to explain, you need to feel.
- When you enter the match, can you understand how the players are tuned, how they intend to play and what level of rigidity they can set?
- From the first minutes you can already determine what the two teams will play. Another thing - during the game everything can change. Then they can blame the same judge: they had to be restrained immediately. A certain risk always exists.
- Does the judge’s acquaintance with the players put extra weight or, on the contrary, help?
- If the players know you as a judge, this is not the first time you have met them, it is always better. Another question, what was the last meeting with these players, maybe something happened there.
But time passes, the game passes - and some roughness is forgotten, because basically all normal people. It is always better for an experienced referee who the players know to enter the game.
- The question of inviting foreign judges is to take, for example, an invitation from a Bulgarian to the match “Tiraspol” - “Pyunik” or Uruguayan to the match “Sheriff” - “Tiligul”. In principle, a foreigner is put in order to avoid any kind of pressure: he does not know anyone here, he has come and judges by the rules. What do you think about it?
- The question is not easy. Of course, one can find the positive in this - if only because the judge comes and he doesn’t care who he judges and that the press will write about him later. He is a more relaxed person in this sense - he has sued, left and forgot the next day whom he judged. Maybe this is a positive point for the judges.
And as for the teams, I don’t know, especially if suddenly the judge makes a mistake at some point. There are five or six leading football countries in Europe, while this has not been applied there. We are starting to apply. It is necessary to more or less clearly present the prospect of this situation.
What can be expected? For example, bad: the level of Russian judges will fall. This is unambiguous. For example, twenty teams judge the Russian championship, which are conditionally divided into two parts - the first ten and the second ten. The first includes teams that must and can serve any match of the championship.
“ By the way, do we have ten brigades?”
- Still there. (Laughs.) It is better if there are more such brigades. Each round the situation is changing, someone is sick. It’s better not to change to a young one, but to a more experienced one. Changing is always very difficult, it causes different interpretations.
So, in order to conduct the championship more or less normally, there should be as many brigades that can initially judge any match. And the second ten includes younger judges, less experienced, less qualified at the moment. They get fewer games.
And if we begin to invite more foreigners, then this top group will decrease, because the judges will be left without enough practice. You can watch the match on TV as much as you like, but until you made a mistake in this match and after the error you didn’t enter the field again (let's see how you survive it all), you will not become a good judge.
- You did not show a single yellow card in the Champions League match Arsenal - Villarreal. In the meeting “Milan” - “Inter”, which you judged, there were no cards either. And suddenly 16 pieces in the match Holland - Portugal. Was the game so out of the ordinary?
- First of all, it depends on the players. It's not me who makes these plague tackles, but the players. I only react accordingly.
- Is there such a thing - “at the discretion of the judge”?
- In the rules it sounds like this - "according to the judge." For example, if, in the judge’s opinion, there was a hand game, then a penalty kick is awarded. If, in the judge's opinion, there has been a hit of the ball in the hand, then this is not punishable.
- Are there any rules in football that you, as a judge, would like to change?
- I would say - remove the penalty area. But it will not be serious.
- And do not beat the penalty?
- Yes. But in fact, I do not want this, because then football will lose a lot. Although it would be much easier for me to judge.
- And the offside rule?
- In no case can’t it be canceled, because it will be another game even by external perception.
- They proposed to draw an arc 40 meters from the gate, inside of which, behind which you can stand as you like.
- You know, as soon as you spend something additionally on the field, even from the picture, it will be the wrong football in perception. Honestly, I’m not sure that this will contribute to its popularity. People who are trying to change something ...
Why are any changes in the rules taken with caution? Because football is a thriving business, even though - and maybe because - because everyone makes mistakes. It is very popular all over the world. If we talk about the Champions League, the World Cup, they bring huge profits. Why change if all of this works? And if in the game everything becomes clear and understandable to everyone? What will journalists do, what to write about?
- Is there such a thing as a Soviet, Russian school of refereeing, or is it all speculation?
- Of course, there is the concept of "Soviet school of refereeing." What is happening now in terms of training judges is actually a continuation of what happened in Soviet times.
- Name three features that distinguish our school.
- Now basically a single model is taken. The fact that our leader Nikolai Levnikov is one of the UEFA leaders is reflected in the referee training system both physically and technically. What is there is immediately introduced into our country. I would say that at some points we were even ahead of UEFA.
- But some features remain?
- This is the same as in football itself. After all, Italian football, for example, differs from German or English, although they play according to the same rules. Even when they come to England and bring something of their own, players play English football.
It is difficult to explain how the game is different. She was always different, however, now she is slightly leveled. But if I look from the side at an unfamiliar judge, I can say: this judge in Italy, and this one in Germany or in Russia.
- If we begin to inquire about how the Russian judging style differs, then we will come to the question of how Russia is different, the Russian mentality. Perhaps this is precisely what we are by ourselves - we are between Europe and Asia.
- Russia is a great country. Of course, we are different from everyone. But not always, maybe in a good way.
- Since you don’t want to talk to the press while preparing for the matches, what do you want to do?
- But nothing, I want to relax. In horizontal or in a sitting position to watch movies, read books. I like to go to the cinema from time to time. Such a fairly traditional occupation. The most important thing is to get distracted. Everything that can distract you is good. Still constantly be in the business ...
In order to normally enter the field, you need to rest from time to time. You can’t enter the field not even physically, psychologically tired, tortured by this football. If you go out tired, if you’re tired of everything, then you’ll get an unpleasant moment.
- Is the new generation of Russian judges growing good? To whom will you pass the banner?
“They themselves will take the banner and carry it.” Now I would not like to rank the guys whom I know very well by rank. I certainly have an opinion on each of them. Speaking objectively about the next big tournament - the European Championship, today two people can claim to participate in it - this is Yura Baskakov and Nikolai Ivanov from St. Petersburg. To a greater extent, probably, Baskakov, because he is already in that class and is judging the Champions League. In this regard, he has an advantage.
- Is there no reserved place for judges from Russia?
- Not. We still have to fight for a place.
- Baskakov and Ivanov have a class and status, but do our other judges?
- There is a sufficient group. For example, Igor Egorov, who now can also be called quite an experienced judge, a judge of the international category. He has good prospects.
“ But has he not yet been given the appropriate status?”
- If we are talking about international referees - of which there are actually a huge number all over the world, even in Burundi, anywhere, everywhere, - then they are divided into several groups. If I am not mistaken, they begin with the fourth group. And gradually grow, depending on what they achieve in life.
If we talk about Europe, then there is a second group, the first and the top class. As far as I know, once a year a referee committee meets and someone is transferred somewhere depending on the grades that the judges receive during the international season. Only the international season is taken.
- The fact that we have Levnikov there contributes to the advancement of ours?
- At least we can be sure that not a single good judge who goes well will go unnoticed. There are a lot of judges, and all representatives want their judge to be as high as possible. Therefore, it is important to remind the judge once again - take a trip, see how the same Igor Egorov judges, a good guy, he has good prospects. They will go and see ... Even in this regard, the presence of our representative is very important.
“ How do you feel about Blatter?”
- I'm normal. Like to the president.
- How did you react to the newspaper reporting criticism from Blatter after the match between Holland and Portugal?
- I was very tired. And I perfectly understood that this is not the case when you can judge cleanly and without problems. Always in matches of this level, different points will be discussed ...
- After all, they are showing them from 40 cameras.
- Of course, I don’t want any extra noise. I want to be more inconspicuous, then work more quietly in the future. I understood that it was a very difficult match. But, on the other hand, oddly enough it may sound, even knowing what the FIFA president said, I felt a sense of satisfaction: I spent the whole match and stood it in a single vein to the end.