Last summer, Kickstarter launched a
project of metal constructors Time 4 Machine and for several months raised three times more money than needed. This is a new project by Denis Okhrimenko (
DenisOkhrimenko ) - one of the creators of plywood models UGears.
We talked with him about why now nothing connects him with this brand and how he founded a new company. How the idea of metal modular models appeared, how much time and effort it takes to develop, why SolidWorks kills creativity and when bakers at Kickstarter get their models - read about all this and more under the cut.
- Denis, tell us who you are by education and what did you do before the designers?- I, as it usually happens with us, have an economic education. Ukrainian Academy of Banking, Faculty of Finance. After that, for about five years I worked in economic journalism in various newspapers: Kompanion, Delo.
In general, much of what I know and can do came from my projects. Somehow I came up with the idea for which I learned to work in a 3D editor. In 2006, I had a project with which I traveled to different factories, but at that time nobody was interested in producing unique cups - only lots from 10,000 pieces. The project did not work, but the skills in 3D modeling remained. And then I was drawn into the sphere of design and I worked for several more years in the interior, exhibition.
Sometimes I was disappointed: I thought that I would never launch any project, that they were of little interest to anyone. But suddenly there was a topic with all these startups - I sat down in a chair and thought: what could I do to do nothing else? But “nothing was done” at all was not possible - still, as they say, it’s necessary to chew, cook. But it probably also depends on the character. It is difficult for me to stop at one thing, I need two projects to be, more.
It took two years to invent a constructor, which later became UGears. When you look at some ready-made interesting designer, you think: well, I could reproduce this in a month or two. But when you start doing it from scratch, it turns out much longer. At first, I was thinking of making it from cardboard, stamping. Then he went through other options: foam board, pure wood, polystyrene foam, but also did not. As a result, came to the plywood and laser cutting. Now I am going through the same process with metal. Big? Small? What are the thicknesses? It sometimes takes years to find answers to all these questions.
By the way, I was one of the first to show that designer Artemy Lebedev. He said: oh cool! And he became one of our first customers. Then, by decision of my partner for a while, Studio stopped trading UGears. Now they are trading again, but I am not in any way connected with them.
- How did it happen that the person who invented everything no longer participates in the affairs of UGears?- I usually like to say that I am “the author of the idea” or “former founder”. This is of course for me such a topic ... unpleasant. Now I have completely left the project and have nothing to do with it - I sold my share.
I personally made about eight models for UGears. The designers I hired are five more models. The last thing they had — horses, airplanes — this was no longer with me. The horse is not bad, and the other models, I think, are too overloaded.
When my former partner and I met at an exhibition in Germany, I told him that a new project [there are also plywood models included] showing where the plywood market should go. Recent [Ugears] models have become too huge, overloaded, and I believe that they should be small, light and compact.
- How and when did you get the idea to make Time 4 Machine?- In fact, immediately after leaving UGears, an idea appeared. That project was beautiful. It is a pity that he went to people who were never fond of modeling itself. They are not bad managers and salespeople, but ...
I once had a dream about a cut loaf, only of iron. And then I brewed some coffee in the morning and it dawned on me: you can also make metal models! There is such a strange moment. Naturally, I used to understand that they can be made metal, but quite different when it dawns on you how to do it. But still, quite a lot of time was spent searching for a visual solution. Even in the picture you can already understand: oh, this is the lineup!
I thought it would take me three months to develop. Well, or six months. It took more than a year, and we are still at the start of sales. But the models are very attracted attention at the exhibitions. Why dont know. Maybe because it is brilliant. And when people find out that it also goes.
And one more advantage is that they are small. Plywood models are cool, but healthy. You collect two trucks and you already think: where to put them? Metal models are smaller, you can more accurately make mechanics, real mechanisms. I can’t tell you in detail yet, but now we are developing models that are not so much toys, but real mechanisms. We even have patents for some types of compounds.
- How many people work on the Time 4 Machine team now?- In Kiev - seven. In the Dnieper - about five more people. This is not counting investors, consultants. That is more than ten people developers.
- How do the ideas of new models arise?- There are a lot of ideas. They should rather be sifted out. Now we are making a locomotive, which was first ordered from a very cool artist. But already made a lot of changes. Beautiful it turns out streamliner. Even now in the development of a typewriter. At the same time, we do not suffer from realism. Now we have mechanisms in the style of Faberge eggs. Designers for adults: sophisticated, beautiful, elegant.
In general, any project initially comes from the heart of the author, and then begins the so-called stage management - this is when a sketch goes to the marketing department, is tested on focus groups. And marketing tells you: “You know what? Nobody needs this sketch, it competes with your previous model, it will force it out. And he is big and expensive, and is designed for children. Therefore, make either a simple and cheap designer for children, or a large and expensive - for directors. Only directors will not collect such a constructor, because there is no such thing as an “elite constructor”. And you have to keep a certain balance, of course.
But while we go on a whim. Ahead - blue ocean. While in the market there is no other metal tank. This then begins: what could be done to avoid running into the same model of another company.
- Why are your models mostly in retro style?- I generally thought that steam-punk would die. It will end somewhere in 2016. But he lives ... I position this “iron” as diesel punk - we are more like him. I think this is due to the fact that the mechanical model with large gears - it is understandable.
A person looks at electronics and does not understand how it works; he can only interact with it. There is little beauty and a lot of utility in it, and people get tired of utility. Yes, in general - it's just beautiful. Some people blame me for the "monogram", but I did not want to immediately make a military tank, realistic, with a tower - all this will come later.
- Why metal, and not, say, plastic?- I raised this topic even in UGears. You can also make molds. But in one model, 50 unique parts are 50 forms. That is, immediately pulls not by 10k dollars, but by 50 thousand. This is a big risk. And the laser allows you to do unique things at least every time.
And, by the way, about the difference between the designer and the model. A constructor is when you can assemble five different models from one set. And in this case we are talking about models. Now, probably, it would be possible to invest in plastic. And I think the Chinese will invest. But tactile metal is nicer. And he is more resilient. In plywood models, the gum dries, the material cracks or soaks, the model turns yellow, deteriorates. And in metal models we use springs. And in our new plywood models, we also introduced springs, by the way.
- How much time does it take to develop one model?- Well, we made a container for business cards - it took two days. But now we have been doing a typewriter for a month now. In general, on average, one model is better to lay half a year. Many companies that have entered this area are faced with the problem of designers. And then they run around the market and ask: Denis, and you do not have designers? Any contacts?
Not everyone can handle such tasks. Recently, we faced this: the designer, who develops lawn mowers, turned out to be very difficult to make something working out of these strips of metal. Difficult to balance between design, ease of assembly and appearance. I myself went to this for more than two years.
It is technically interesting ideas that people sometimes give out almost immediately. A specialist comes from the plant to them. Antonova and gives something that can only be said "wow!". But for the team model, this will not work.
- How many iterations does a model go from idea to realization?- I have a pile of these models in my workplace. Suppose a tank model has now passed 25 iterations. As such, it traveled a long time ago, but the pendulums and caterpillars sometimes jammed. I had to do so that the model was not too accurate and a little backlash. On some details you hang for a long time. For example, we have been doing these same pendulum and caterpillars for several months. But already brought them to mind.
Or I picked up and put a gearbox, springs in front and behind in a convertible. But the back had to be removed. I thrust in the autopilot steering wheel - so that she herself taxied herself. Made the glove box. Lever on / off and slow.
A year has passed, and I asked myself: what for? It was possible just to make it go forward. Everyone is trying to do hard at first, cool. And then this elegance appears, when the speed regulator is created not from 10-15 parts, but from three.
- What software do you use to build drawings?- We try to switch to SolidWorks, but many of us work in 3DSMax. But I must say that the program sometimes kills the design. In my opinion, SolidWorks is gradually pushing you to draw evenly with roundings, rather than draw Faberge eggs. And she inclines you to draw boxes. And such programs as 3DSMax do not kill the design. You are not afraid to draw in him, he is not pushing you to drawing.
- Where is the production now?- Production is in Ukraine. It is not big at all yet - this is a laser machine for metal. Although we plan to go to China and plan to use a different mode of production.
- How much does the machine cost and how quickly does it fight off?- The machine costs about 60k dollars. We believed that if it was loaded from morning to evening, it would pay off in 3-4 months. But the laser is a little unstable technology, quite a lot of rejects - suddenly there is a deposit, then some kind of wagging. Perhaps it was necessary to buy a machine for 300,000. And we regard this machine as a test one.
- What kind of metal do you use?- Stainless steel. AISI basically take - glossy, does not rust. Although there is an idea on the contrary to take rusting steel. I wanted to make the K-700 tractor, the Kirovets, one of the following models, so that it was all shiny and the wheels black.
- Metal plates look dangerous. Can I cut myself during assembly?- It looks worse than it feels in the hands. You can sometimes cut yourself if something comes out of your hand. But in general, the parts have absolutely normal, safe edges, which are difficult to cut.
- How are age limits selected?- All these models come with an age limit of 14+. This is such a trick that allows you to not receive certificates. When a set contains more than 500 parts, it cannot be considered a priori as a children's product. Officially, we make models for collectors - this is how all companies work in this area. At the same time, we of course passed the necessary checks. There is an expertise SES, that models are not harmful. And this, in principle, limited.
“Ugears models were ideally collected only in advertisements and reviews, but in fact, they often had to polish something with a file. How do metal parts behave?- In the metal a little different. The holes in the details are made a little more, the eyelet is quietly wound up there, then take the pliers and crank. One ear can still hold badly, but if there are two, it is tight. When, after metal models, you return to plywood, you wonder how you have to push all this into the slots.
- The campaign on Kickstarter turned out to be more than successful, but in the comments a lot of people are not satisfied with the deadlines. When will these 479 people get their kits?- We are already ready to send convertibles. The tests were very prolonged: we completely reworked the instructions, because the people could not collect.
This project was harder than the previous one. We sat on the cabriolet for a long time, we were tormenting the tank for a long time. Just did not work. Plus we do not have many resources. I consider the Kickstarter campaign unsuccessful. 52,000 dollars is not much.
- Why do we need investors, if there is a Kickstarter? Do not want to be the sole owner of the business?- This is possible when you already have a prototype and thousands of at least ten dollars to launch. At that time, when I signed an investment agreement for Time 4 Machine, I had the last 10 bucks in my pocket.
Investments were initially small. But the project was harder than planned. I expected that we would do everything in six months. Now we are discussing the participation of another investor - we need money for China.
- When will your designer be available for retail?- As soon as we send cabriolets and fulfill obligations to Kickstarter, they will immediately go in retail.
- Where is the greatest demand for such modular models?- Basically - this is the United States. There is such a company
MetalEarth . They make metal models, but static. There it is very popular. But we are also considering Europe, Russia, and Kazakhstan. With everyone who wants to trade, we are ready to cooperate.
- What is included in the set besides the parts themselves?- At the "Kickstarter" is now a premium version. We even put a cleaning cloth in there. Put pliers, although they could not put. But when the buyer starts looking for pliers at home, the tweezers are small - it affects the perception.
Thick parts of 3 mm steel are in a separate bag. Spring - also separately. Well, the instruction of course. The remaining parts lie in the cells in such cardboard plates covered with veneer. This is the ... laksheri version that my partner developed. We are planning to keep it - you want to buy it and feel that you have opened a “professional” mechanic set.
There will be a simpler version - there the parts are held in metal - but it will also be beautiful. Box of black cardboard with silk screen printing. Tweezers will be there too.
- Is there a universal designer in the plans?- Remember the Soviet metal constructor "in the hole"? It turns out that this is already invented before us. And besides, it is designed for rather coarse stamping. And we want “thin” things to do. While I do not really think this way.
- If Habr and Geektimes want an exclusive model, something will come out of this?- Is it possible. Requests come from time to time. But it should be either a simple model, which we will do quickly, or complex, but then you need to agree that we will sell it with our logo later.
We are ready for the Habrasoobshchestvo to make some kind of model, I think it will be useful for all. Generate ideas!
- You got a video on Facebook with an Elvis plywood car, but under the brand Time 4 Machine. What is it?- We realized that the whole market did not go there. Models began to go more and more difficult. We decided to make small, elegant models from plywood, but at the same time interesting ones - this was made possible by the spring.
A motor block with rubber really takes a lot of space. Consider this a subproject of Time 4 Machine. It is led by individuals, as well as the direction of
electronic and
paper models .
- Who are your main competitors?- We have not really entered the market. We are making a cross between MetalEarth and UGears. From MetalEarth, I expect either some claims, or that they will start copying us. I know UGears patents - I developed the basic ones myself. And everything is not patented: this does not apply to spike-groove connections, nor to laser cutting of plywood.
- 2 months ago you created a closed group “Designers of mechanical models” on Facebook. What's going on inside there?- There appeared such an interesting market - it exists, but there is no trade union. Some I advise. Some offer collaboration. For example, they write me: I am from Kazakhstan, I want to be your competitor, help me, please. And I help.
There are a lot of designers. Someone can write: I quit, take me to work. We can discuss models, innovations, technical solutions. In plywood, where there is a lot of friction, many standard solutions had to be reinvented. We made a plywood cardan six versions, until he earned. In general, knock if interesting.